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Schumacher Fusion R12 issues and fixes

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Category: Nitro
Forum Name: Nitro Touring
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URL: http://www.racing-cars.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12141
Printed Date: 19 April 2019 at 5:50am
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Topic: Schumacher Fusion R12 issues and fixes
Posted By: z24_v6
Subject: Schumacher Fusion R12 issues and fixes
Date Posted: 18 July 2011 at 3:26pm

 This tread is only intended for those who still have this car around or have it by second hands and are surrender or let go because of all the issues this car had. And Schumacher just put the car out of production. So support was long gone ago.

 Well what I did was find some solutions on the internet and other solutions made it by me, and put the fixes all together in one place. This is going to be informational only, because most us would not even try this anymore, but for those who like to try this and have any doubts just let me know. Or if you have better solutions, please donít hesitate to put them on this tread.

Thank You.

Z




Replies:
Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 18 July 2011 at 4:06pm
Please be patience until I'll update all the information bit by bit.

First issue: REAR BELT Shredding, braking, torn apart etc.

Cause Theory: Main Belt tightness pulls back and twist the Rear Diff Pulley and puts the Rear Belt an uneven position that gets stressed until the layshaft alloy pulley do it's job to torn it apart.

Possible solution: Put the MAIN BELT tension as loosest possible without jumping. And make sure and check the Rear Diff that the Main Belt doesn't make more pressure than the Rear Belt. Both Belts most be equally even when you put the Rear Diff to the Diff Mounts. I'll explain it later with pictures.

Money Solution: Rear CNC Diff Pulley U2745.  Puts all the belts pressure out once and for all. Drive-train super loose.

 This test was made of 45 minutes race yesterday, had some other problems though. But non of them matters, my main focus was the Belts. And they didn't give any sing of ware, nor shredding nothing at all. They work flawlessly.


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 20 July 2011 at 6:02am
And to mention. I was using an old layshaft with used wear pulley. And nothing happened. So.. Is not the stones, like it was once told before.


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 20 July 2011 at 7:12am
I'm simulating the problem what really happens to the rear belt cause of the Main Belt.  You'll hardly notice but as you see, the main belt pulls back a little bit the diff and points it the to left front angle direction, and there you see just a little bit, how's the rear belt get's twisted or tilted because of the main belt tightness.  If this theory is true, that's the cause of the R12's REAR Belt nightmare, and then this is when your race is over. Just do it for your self and you're understand.  Just make sure to not feel some resistance on the main belt when you install your diffs on the diff mounts. It needs to be loose.







Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 20 July 2011 at 7:15am
And this how's should look in a normal way. All in a strait line. Just compare the rear belt with the other picture.




Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 20 July 2011 at 7:18am
The layshaft pulley all wear out, that didn't affect the rear belt.




Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 20 July 2011 at 7:21am
When using the CNC rear diff pulley, it solved from 85% to 95% of the problem. So..this is a most.


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 24 July 2011 at 6:05pm
Belt replacement for now: Tough Racing TRTB144 direct replace belt for HPI Nitro RS4. This belt can use for the rear pulley and the layshaft of the R12, it measure 5.5mm. I'm in the process to make a special order that measure 6mm and would be the direct replacement for the Rear R12 belt. I'll let you know when this happens. They are kevlar belt's made in japan and distributed in South Korea. They seemed quite tough for a cheap price, already test it out and did a pretty good job.

I'm too in the process to replace the main belt. But have to stay with the stock one for now. Let you know in the future. He are some pics.


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 24 July 2011 at 6:11pm









Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 7:14am
Originally posted by z24_v6 z24_v6 wrote:

Please be patience until I'll update all the information bit by bit.

First issue: REAR BELT Shredding, braking, torn apart etc.

Cause Theory: Main Belt tightness pulls back and twist the Rear Diff Pulley and puts the Rear Belt an uneven position that gets stressed until the layshaft alloy pulley do it's job to torn it apart.

Possible solution: Put the MAIN BELT tension as loosest possible without jumping. And make sure and check the Rear Diff that the Main Belt doesn't make more pressure than the Rear Belt. Both Belts most be equally even when you put the Rear Diff to the Diff Mounts. I'll explain it later with pictures.

Money Solution: Rear CNC Diff Pulley U2745.  Puts all the belts pressure out once and for all. Drive-train super loose.

 This test was made of 45 minutes race yesterday, had some other problems though. But non of them matters, my main focus was the Belts. And they didn't give any sing of ware, nor shredding nothing at all. They work flawlessly.


Money Solution: And the front CNC Pulley U2746


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 7:21am
Last but not least. And I think his have been discuss before. Remove the lower bearings from the Main Belt Tension. This keeps the Main Belt very loose and makes you're rear belt very happy. Approve








Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 7:25am
Second issue: Diff fences snapping, slops, etc.

Cause Theory: Main Belt tightness pulls back and twist the Rear Diff Pulley, then the Main Belt push outwards the diff fence until it snaps out.

Possible solution: Put the MAIN BELT tension as loosest possible without jumping. And make sure and check the Rear Diff that the Main Belt doesn't make more pressure than the Rear Belt. Both Belts most be equally even when you put the Rear Diff to the Diff Mounts. Use and put Epoxy on both sides of the fences of the diff so they won't snap out. For the CNC's pulleys fences, there might not be a chance to use epoxy on them because they are so tight that they won't come out so easy, already test it.

Use some piece of aluminum paper on the upper side of the diff ball bearing mount to eliminate the DIFF slop or play. I've heard people to use other techniques to resolve the same slop issue. Like using paper underneath the diff ball bearing mount and other shimming the diff outputs, they all resolve the same slop issue.

Money Solution: Rear CNC Diff Pulley U2745 and for the front pulley U2746. Puts all the belts pressure out once and for all. Drive-train super loose. Pulley fences are very tight they wont snap out. They still needs to use aluminum paper, normal paper or shimming the diff output to resolve the slop issue.


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 7:26am
Here are the two Diffs front and rear with CNC white pulleys. I just installed the front CNC pulley, but I haven't test it yet. But you can start with the rear pulley for now and most of the pain will be gone. Smile




Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 7:30am
Here you can see the difference of the position of the diff balls of both types of diff pulleys.  Want to give big thanks to blade from his fusion project. Clap




Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 8:33am
Here's the part when you put epoxy glue if you have the old diff pulleys with the metal fence.




Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 8:34am
And here is when you use aluminum paper front and rear diff ball bearing mounts or the other solutions to fix the slop issue.

 




Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 01 August 2011 at 2:53am
Third issue (actually not an issue, but a disadvantage for this car): The R12 Clutch.

Pros: Nice for bashing, or running around.
Cons: Not competitive for touring races compare to the other cars around today.  Not even modifying the shoes, springs, etc still was in disadvantage.

First Possible solution: A Centax Clutch. But it never happened.
Second Possible solution: A push type and adjustable clutch so it can be used with you're regular stock clutchbell with gears.  The options are the Werks and the SPM Clutches. I first had the chance to verify with the Werks clutch, but I think it didn't work for some kind of a reason the clutchbell didn't fit with the Werks clutch. Although both clutches looks the same, but there internally diameters are different. (I might be wrong with this, but is up to you if you wanna try with the Werks Racing Clutch then, but I'll try to verify again if I can find a Werks clutch in the future.).   In that case the SPM Racing Clutch was the one to choose. (Go to give many thanks to octraver for this).

Parth numbers:
SPM108A it comes with black carbon shoes. Good grip with mild slip and wear.
                           SPM108R it comes with red rulon shoes.  More grip with non slip, but with fast wear.
                           You don't want to use the teflon white shoes otherwise you'll wouldn't being upgrading.

Some hints and advice:
Was kind difficult to search and buy this product on the internet, because most of them you'll find them on Italy web sites. (In my case though because I live in the US territory) The official web site for this clutch is http://www.spmracingparts.com/ and I think you can't buy nothing from them.  Once you have you're SPM Clutch in your hands, please be patience. This might or might not work in your first attempt so take you're time.  This is going to be more like a trial an error until done.  But once you're done, you're gonna gain a great reward from this upgrade.

I'll try to explain the things that needs to do bit by bit, to fit this clutch on you're Fusion R12.  But for some of you who have more experience and have better ideas, please put them on this thread so we can all help each other.


Z Smile


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 01 August 2011 at 4:09am
Some pictures of the clutch











Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:00pm
Ok, here is the whole set of clutch system in separate pieces. :sweat:



Another pic from a top view




Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:05pm
Ok, let's roll


First step is to shim or to get some spacers to put them so the MAIN Belt pass trough the engine and the flywheel without rubbing. They measured about 3mm with 1/8 wide, this is the basic from here on, so the rest it will depends on your engine. Let's hope you can make it without a problem. Next is the engine cone, so here too it depends on your engine. I used the rossi one though.







Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:09pm
Lets start to install.

Here you install the 3mm spaces on your cranckshaft.


Later the engine cone.


Next the flywheel.


Later after that, put and screw the clutch nut. I suggest you do some trial an error with this before continuing the next steps.  Because for some unexplained reason, If put more shims or spacers, the clutch nut would not grip the flywheel, if I put less shims, the flywheel gets loose completely. After this try to install the engine an check for the passage of the MAIN BELT.  


Your engine should look something like this. It looks like it is rubbing but is not. I'll post some more pictures later.


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:16pm
Alright, once you finished your previews step. Put some tread lock on your crank shaft thread so the clutch nut could be very tight.


Then put the shoes.


Then the pressure plate.


The hard spring(silver).


The adjuster Nut.


You can start to adjust at least 1 thread expose, I'll explain later what happens.


Your bearing, you can use a 5x9x3.


Then your engine end cap.


The clutch bell.


The bearing flanged.


The engine screw with the washers. Put some a bit of thread lock just in case. I had some bad experience with this.


Alright this should be it.  Clutch complete.


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:20pm
Ohh! one last thing. I had to put some washers on the engine mount, because the flywheel rubbed the floor when I run my car and chew the outer of the flywheel and a couple of times the engine stopped. But didn't happened that much just one or two. The R12 stock flywheel measures 34mm, the SPM flywheel measures 37mm. So it will rubbed the floor.






Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 1:37am
Some more information installation of the clutch if you like.

http://www.werksracing.com/powerinstructions.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.werksracing.com/powerinstructions.html

http://forums.thetoyz.com/index.php?showtopic=3117" rel="nofollow - http://forums.thetoyz.com/index.php?showtopic=3117


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 2:04am
Well, lets continue. Here's another pic how the Main Belt passes under the spacers from the engine.


Are we done and finished? uum Nope not yet!  You wonder on the previews posts that I made and says why you can't expose more than 1 thread on the clutch nut adjuster. Well because after some test drive this 3 this happens! Sorry, It was unexpected to me too. :confused: This 3 parts got damage by the great force of the SPM clutch(Centax wannabe) :lol:

1. The diff screw got torn apart in two pieces.
2. The 1st Speed One Way Hub just unglued it self from the hub case.
3. The Layshaft pulley internal pin got broke in two pieces.

And you ask your self. Will I keep going to deal with more problems that I had with this extinct dinosaur piece of crap? :flaming::cry: I'll just go away and use my newer model and all my problems are gone. :mad:

You know, you're right!  Well then go ahead and do it. :weird: Otherwise just stay a little bit because there always a solution for everything. :sneaky:

That's why Schumacher suspended this car.    :weird: The thing is... that I don't understand is why revive the M1 electric car if is the same old Mission from almost more than 10 years.  And is the same chassis as the R12, only with nitro engine. So it still lives, only with a different name.  And heard they have similar problems.


OK Z, focus, focus on the mission. :lol:

 Solutions :

1. The rear Diff screw got torn apart when I was using the front Spool. I change it to front diff balls and and new diff screw and all went alright. Maybe using a titanium high tensile diff screw should do the trick. I'll check and test this later.

2. For the 1st Speed oneway hub. It just happened once, I used another one that I had and haven't had problems anymore. But with the damage one what I did is to put some epoxy glue on the hub case later put the oneway bearing in it. Later need to make some tests.

Just make sure to remove any remain epoxy glue on the back of the oneway hub. Otherwise the transmission will react funny.



3. OK this is tricky one. Had to replace the inner pin from the layshaft pulley for a big and stronger pin. Where's there's no sing of this part anyplace from the manual of the R12.  You just had to buy a whole new layshaft that cost you for about $30 for a broken pin and this part it's all gone, hard to find this sparepart. Well if you are one of those don't trash your layshaft here's the solution.

First, just remove the outer side fence of the pulley with a wrench.  And take the pin out.



Here is the whole separate layshaft with and old and new pin. And a drill inside the hole of the pulley.



This is the drill


The drill from another view



These are the pins.  If you see the left side it's the newer and stronger one. And right is the stock one. No wonder it broke so easy. Don't ask me what kind of materials and tools are. I just got it from a friends of friend of mine. Soo.. I'll ask him later what material and what tools are these.



Well you'll already know what to do.  Just make a bigger hole with the drill on the pulley and on the outer side hole of the shaft, where the pulley it's connected. Then you later need to cut the bigger pin to match the size of the stock one so it can enters correctly on the pulley and the shaft.


Bigger and stronger pin inside the pulley and the shaft.


Put everything back in place and you're layshaft is reinforced and finished. No more broken pins.



Posted By: blade954
Date Posted: 07 August 2011 at 2:17pm
Some great info here, Keep up the good work makes me want mine back...lol 


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 07 August 2011 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by blade954 blade954 wrote:

Some great info here, Keep up the good work makes me want mine back... lol 


Thanks mate.

I know this is kind of late, but it some knowledge that's was needed here on the records years ago. And I dedicated some time to put it all here.  And I know when people see this, some of them will really appreciate this. Some will just ignore it.

This is all for now at the moment.  But I will post more info later after I made some more test on the car with different parts.

Later Man.


Posted By: mi2driver
Date Posted: 14 August 2011 at 10:57pm
this stuff is ace might even get my old r12 out of its box again there are also some of the   parts off the mi2 and mi2ec that fit and make good up grades


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 15 August 2011 at 2:03pm
Thanks Mate. I'm glad you like it.  These are the people that I'm looking for. There's a lot of R12 out there on the shelves waiting for some kind of update.  I'm gonna keep updating some more new stuff when I get the time.  But this is all i have for now, just stay tune.  You can check too on the RC Tech forum site. I posted the same info on a RCTECH fusion R12 tread.  http://www.rctech.net/forum/nitro-road/16750-schumacher-r12-fusion-33.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.rctech.net/forum/nitro-road/16750-schumacher-r12-fusion-33.html . 

In case you made your updates on your r12, just want to know if the Rear Belt issue it's been solved once and for all.  An yess, I've been researching for parts and help from other peoples on the net, and some new parts from newer cars still fit with the old r12. Like I told before, the R12 is not really dead, it lives on with the M1 Electric car.


Cheers! Big smile


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 05 April 2012 at 5:34pm
Hi again guys. I've been off for a while, but here I'm again. I've been doing some updates to my R12 through the time. So here they are, hope you like it guys. I'm not getting to the details at the moment. Just to show the pictures what's new with my R12.

Mods
Big Bore Shocks
Low Profile KFactory Gas Tank
Front Roll Center Mod
Rear Roll Center Mod
Rulon or Red Shoes for the SPM Clutch (More Acceleration) And fine tuning adjustement to mesh with spur gears.


Smile

Cheers!

Z

 





Big Bore Shocks





Low Profile KFactory Gas Tank




Front Roll Center Mod





Rear Roll Center Mod


 

Rulon Red Clutch Shoes for more acceleration.
















Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 24 August 2012 at 8:08am
Last but no least. Had to do this with the 1st Speed One Way bearing, because it just won't withstand the force that generates from the SPM clutch after couple of runs. I seems that the one way bearing it's glued with CA so I used Locktight Marine Epoxy glue and see if doesn't comes off again. Already test it though for an hour and didn't come off. There's might be another way to tight that oneway bearing in the housing using a grub screw but it's more risky. But for now see what happens with the locktight marine glue on my next race.









Posted By: infoleather
Date Posted: 12 September 2012 at 4:33am
I cannot understand this but I know that background color looks pretty good, I love purple!


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 16 September 2012 at 7:09am

Here's what happened couple of weeks ago, when I run my R12 at my local rc track. It Qualified 5th in the A MAIN. But did not finished due to engine problems so yes it's a DNS. But it was a fast car though. Here's some pics: enjoy


Before the race





Racing time












Posted By: blade954
Date Posted: 28 September 2012 at 12:54pm
Good stuff man good to see this burning around the track..... Arrr memories...... 


Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 28 September 2012 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by blade954 blade954 wrote:

Good stuff man good to see this burning around the track..... Arrr memories...... 


Man!! All I can say is... this little project thing is fast. It's faster than before after all the mods.  But the great factor here it's the clutch. This clutch gave a new life to this car.  People were like what the hell? Confused Shocked  I was racing against new everything.  New Serpents, Mugens, The Goat cars and bunch of Xray's.  And the R12 was still there... hanging with the big boys.  I still couldn't believe with my own eyes, either the people out there that a decade years old car can still be so competitive as before.

I have a race again on this weekend, and lets see what happened next.  I just hope that nothing wrong happens this time and at least finish the race.

I'll try to post more pictures, results and some videos if I get the chance.  I'll keep you guys inform.

Cheer's mate.



Posted By: z24_v6
Date Posted: 28 September 2012 at 5:55pm
This car can still be found on the internet on second hands.  I have seen a lot of people selling it on e-bay and forums out there. And I just found out that a guy on the internet sold a brand new R12 Team never been used for $75 Cry


I know that Schumacher guys focus on the electric touring cars and they have no plans for this car anymore, but still in the hopes that one day or some day, they change their minds and came up with a surprise.  Well in that case I'll be waiting until that day appears. Smile






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