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HIgh traction, high grip carpet setup

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jonholloway View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 October 2009 at 7:16pm
Hi all,

Need some help, i need a high grip, high traction set up for carpet racing. Just been at the Rug Racers championship and couldn't get the car to work at all, none of the schumi drivers could get it consistent or stable. So just wondering if anyone had any ideas, tried most of the standard set ups.

The only thing that seems to make is ok, was long arms all round...

Any help would be fantastic!

Thanks

Jon
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ASH WIFFEN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ASH WIFFEN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2009 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by jonholloway jonholloway wrote:

Hi all,

Need some help, i need a high grip, high traction set up for carpet racing. Just been at the Rug Racers championship and couldn't get the car to work at all, none of the schumi drivers could get it consistent or stable. So just wondering if anyone had any ideas, tried most of the standard set ups.

The only thing that seems to make is ok, was long arms all round...

Any help would be fantastic!

Thanks

Jon
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ASH WIFFEN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ASH WIFFEN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2009 at 8:23pm
Hi jon i was at rug racers aswell i glued the edge of the front tyres helped alot i was the only schumacher in the tc2 A final my car was ok a higher front roll center will help which i will try next time and i also went to three degrees rear toe in which i felt made the biggest differance still a long way from perfect but alot closer than the start of the day hope this helps mate.
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jonholloway View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonholloway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2009 at 8:54pm
Thanks Ash,

Your car looked good actually, mine was awful, but learning all the time. Is excellent at Maritime, so will keep trying!

Jon
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Robsawell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robsawell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2009 at 12:30pm
Hi guys
Ash your car did look good both Jon and I really struggled yesterday and I
was lucky to make the A in tc3.
After talking to Crisis and Gav today ive got some things to try so if they
work I'll let you know

Yours

Rob Sawell
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jonholloway View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonholloway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2009 at 1:56pm
The car is quite flexy, anybody think that running a stiffer top deck and rear make a difference?

J
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CuttingEdge View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CuttingEdge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2009 at 5:27pm
Ill Be running my Mi4 on Carpet for the First time at the Eversley meeting in November are you guys starting with the Grainger Carpet Setup as in the Back of the Manual ?

Mine is Dialed in on Tarmac now Best car I have ever driven

P.s Ash I found out why my Layshaft was such a Pain to get back in at the STCC at Coastal , It was binding on the Motor mount when we was trying to get it back in
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xtreme-rc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xtreme-rc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2009 at 6:52pm
That's usually what happens to Good Tarmac Cars :( like yokomo BD&mi4...
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Reuben Manning View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reuben Manning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2009 at 9:30pm
I found the thickest rear links stopped the car being twitchy on faster sweeping corners, and settled the car a little more on carpet (compared to kit or ones thicker than kit).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mattytup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2009 at 1:28am
Cutting Edge: when putting the layshaft back in did you
move the motor mount as far across towards the electrics as
it would go to put the layshaft in?
It shouldnt bind if you do that.
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CuttingEdge View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CuttingEdge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2009 at 7:32pm
No I didn't move the motor mount I know now you need to  , When i had the problem it was the first outing for the car .............
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kermitt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kermitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 11:43am

Looking for some help to cure grip roll for my Mi4. I ran my car at the weekend using Chris G's carpet setup running Sorex 28's.

The only change I made was to add a 1mm spacer at the rear to add more inborad toe in, add a 1mm spacer under the front c/f link plate.

The car felt fantastic during practice and initial qualifying however as the grip came up I was suffering heavily from grip roll meaning I was having to take it far too easy into the corners hence reducing my lap times. By the end of the day I had laid the top shock positions all the way down front and rear and changed to blue front and white rear to calm the car down.

So although I had cured my grip roll the car did not feel as agile through the corners which slowed me down throught the tighter sections.

What I am looking for is suggestions as to what I can try next time, I have the Mi3 alloy mounts and was told to try using them up front with no spacers between them to raise the front roll centre.

Other than that I have just purchased some of the new LRP CPX tyres, shorter wishbones and extra flex hubs to try out at the next round.

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Steve Fuller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 1:57pm

Just a couple of tips.

First of all, did you glue the front edge of your tyres? This is the first thing i do for grip role.

Secondly, how much rebound where you running? Too much can cause the car to over react and push the car too much from side to side casuing grip role.

Steven

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kermitt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kermitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 2:10pm

Hi thanks for your reply, I did not glue the front sidewalls purely because I am not so keen on making a mess with the superglue as I usually do. Was running 25% rebound all the way round.

In general I think the car ran better using the stiffer springs which made the handling more agile, perhaps I should have just laid down the shocks in the first place and it would have been better rather than going for much softer springs. But from what I have read laying the shocks all the way down is not always fastest.

This is racing in 13.5 brushless and maintaing a high corner speed seemed critical to a good lap time.

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Steve Fuller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 2:31pm

Usually you need to go stiffer from wherever the grip roles coming from, if its topperling over from the front or rear. Softer will just put more pressure on the tyres, making them overheat quicker. Weird.

25% seems ok, maybe try going a little less if you can, it makes all the difference, maybe 2mm coming out the shaft.

Also what flex wishbones where you running? The carbon fibre short ones, help loads over the kit items in carring corner speed.

Nothing more i can say really, i dont think you need the mi3 rollcentre mounts, i did think that before, but changed my mind, going by trying the car on carpet last weekend.



Edited by Steve Fuller
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kermitt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kermitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 2:39pm

Ok thanks will try that too.

Running med flex standard wishbones just now although have just ordered the short version to try. I understand these work by allowing the chassis to rotate into the corner but the car does not rotate as much, am I right??

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Steve Fuller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 3:10pm

Well not sure on the medium flex wishbones, the carbon ones are stiffer, so the car will rotate on the spot better, also anyone worrying about the strength of them, there super strong! I tested them last saturday in mod, and did have a few moments.

Not sure on the characteristics of them being 1mm shorter, other than allowing the trackwidth to be narrowed without having to take out shims from the bulkhead. I didnt add 1mm to the bulkhead as suggested, well i did, but took it out, front end started pushing.

Another suggestion is the front trackwidth for grip role aswell, widen it by half a mm helps.

Ok im posting too much better get back to studying lol

 



Edited by Steve Fuller
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olev View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote olev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 10:35pm
At the recent EC warmup I was also fighting grip roll, as were many others... the control tire was Xenon 28 with quite low insert (big air gap), the same will be run at the Euros in February. This causes the tire to move sideways a lot during cornering and in the chicanes, where you need to change direction, the car will first not want to change direction, as the tire will "slide" under the car, but then it will hook and you are on the roof before you can say "oOps".

Didn't have enough practice rounds to test everything I wanted, as the grip only came up by the end of round 4 practice or so, and you have to consider me as a mediocre driver at best, but here's some things that IMO are worth a shot:
- no tire warmers
- CA the outside edges of the front tires (I'm using CS Sidewall Glue)
- only apply traction compound to inside half of front tire and only for 5-10 minutes before the start. Rears you can sauce fully and 20-30 min before the run.
- widen the car. I ended up using short CF front arms with 2.5mm spacers, long rear CF arms with 1mm spacers.
- heavy oil & springs. I started ith 60 oil all around and red front/green rear springs, but went to 70 front oil later and it was a bit easier to drive.
- stiff transmission links (3.4 or 4.4mm)
- don't clip the corner dots (easier said than done, the best I could manage in the qualifiers was one roll... and this roll cost me a C-main place).
- lower the center of gravity as much as you can - lightweight body, all the weights down low on the chassis etc.

What I didn't try, but probably will at our next races (we have similar grip roll issues at our track):
- stiffer top deck (although for example Marc Rheinard was cutting the topdeck on his Tamiya to allow for more chassis flex and more forgiving car, so this might have the side effect of making the car too "sharp")
- stiff c-hubs (was running the med flex ones)
- higher roll centre, at least in the front (only had the stock plastic suspension mounts with me)


Edited by olev
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Catmann View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catmann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2009 at 10:26am
Olev thanks. Good information for me. 
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