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Chris Grainger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Sylar Sylar wrote:

Hi Chris and Lee.

What motor will you be running at the WLRC National this year?

How does changing the diff heights affect the car?

Thanks for your help.

Hi

Not sure about Lee but I will be using a GM 6t

Changing the diff height changes the driveshaft angle in relation to the ground, changes the way the car pitches under power and corners, Im not sure what is best on this car yet with the little testing I have done, but the low position I think is best.

Chris

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Sylar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sylar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 5:28pm

Thanks for the quick reply.

Regarding the 6T Delta.

Do you run it sensorless on your GM esc? and would i see a difference in performance or runtime using it sensored on an LRP Speedo.



Edited by Sylar
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lee woodhams View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lee woodhams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 6:34pm

I'll be using a GM 6T delta aswell.

From the running we've done when testing sensored or not, we find runtime is much better unsensored with the GM speedo.

Lee

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MattW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 6:36pm
As for diff height - I would generally say that lower
gives less roll and hence makes the car "bite in" to the
track a little more.

It is actually quite a large change between the lower
and upper positions. In theory raising the rear wll give
more rear rotation. The front seems to have less effect.

I always run both diffs low.
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Sylar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sylar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 7:25pm

Thanks Lee that is interesting, I'm doing Mod this year at Nationals and to be honest my main concern is making runtime, I'l have brand new batteries but i guess you can still run out of juice.

Thanks for that Matt, i was just curious as on pretty much all the xray set up sheets, the diffs are in the high position whereas Schumachers seem to always be placed low. Interesting.

Cheers

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lee woodhams View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lee woodhams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 7:29pm

Chris will 100% this, but i'm sure if you measure diff centre to the ground the distance is the same, Xray's high position and our low position is the same.

Lee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gwesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 8:22pm

  

  hi guys , great thread !!!

hey matt , thats wierd i allways run my diff/spool high !

i feel the lower diff/spool bogs the car down mid corner

cheers glenn westwood    

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mattytup View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mattytup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 9:02pm
Im with glenn on this.
I used to run my diff/spool low but found mid corner i would scrub off ALOT of speed, but i guess its to do with other features in the setup as well. But i also always run mine high.

Matty
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Chris Grainger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by gwesty gwesty wrote:

  

  hi guys , great thread !!!

hey matt , thats wierd i allways run my diff/spool high !

i feel the lower diff/spool bogs the car down mid corner

cheers glenn westwood    

Hey Glenn

Lee me old Lee is correct, High diff on the xray is same as low on ours 22mm from bottom of chassis, But Im not saying your not right there Glenn, Xray always run high and who is to say they would not go higher if they could? so maybe our high is better? to be honest not tested it yet, but when I measured it I thought it seemed to high, But I will test it this weekend.

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Chris Grainger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 10:12pm

Can I just say to Matt Glenn and the rest of the team, please join in to answer any of the questions, be great if we all chip in..

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walden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote walden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by Chris Grainger Chris Grainger wrote:

Originally posted by walden walden wrote:

Shock rebound

Hi Chris & Lee

Cheers Chris for the guide but still having trouble setting my shocks up, i looked back through the Mi3.5 manual to see if there was any diagrams that i could refer to but there is only instructions of how to fill the shocks up,

Would it be possible to have some diagrams drawn up or pics put up the website here please? this would be a fantastic help for everyone

Cheers guys

Paul

Hi Paul

 

Not sure how I could do a diagram really, but I will try and explain

pull piston fully out.

fill with oil to level with top.

move piston up and down a few times and let stand to get all the air out, of use a air remover pump.

then put shaft in the correct position, fully out for 100 percent rebound, half in for 50% etc

While holding it that position place the bladder on top, gently push it into place with your finger or hex driver

Then without moving anything screw the lid on, being carful not to move the bladder.

Dont over tighten the lid, just finger tight.

Then when you push the piston in it should come out to where it was set..

Cheers Chris

Now i have the idea cheers for the explanation, also when you finally set the shock should the piston come out slowly or should it be quicker than normal?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Aird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by Chris Grainger Chris Grainger wrote:

Originally posted by gwesty gwesty wrote:

  

  hi guys , great thread !!!

hey matt , thats wierd i allways run my diff/spool high !

i feel the lower diff/spool bogs the car down mid corner

cheers glenn westwood    

Hey Glenn

Lee me old Lee is correct, High diff on the xray is same as low on ours 22mm from bottom of chassis, But Im not saying your not right there Glenn, Xray always run high and who is to say they would not go higher if they could? so maybe our high is better? to be honest not tested it yet, but when I measured it I thought it seemed to high, But I will test it this weekend.

Sorry to butt into the Schuey love fest. Although just to let you know Chris, XRAY make some eccentric hubs that allow us to raise or lower the diff an extra 0.5mm from standard. They have been tested a while ago by a few guys and the standard high position was found to be best.

Good luck to all the Schumacher guys in 2009

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Chris Grainger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2009 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by Jonny Aird Jonny Aird wrote:

Originally posted by Chris Grainger Chris Grainger wrote:

Originally posted by gwesty gwesty wrote:

  

  hi guys , great thread !!!

hey matt , thats wierd i allways run my diff/spool high !

i feel the lower diff/spool bogs the car down mid corner

cheers glenn westwood    

Hey Glenn

Lee me old Lee is correct, High diff on the xray is same as low on ours 22mm from bottom of chassis, But Im not saying your not right there Glenn, Xray always run high and who is to say they would not go higher if they could? so maybe our high is better? to be honest not tested it yet, but when I measured it I thought it seemed to high, But I will test it this weekend.

Sorry to butt into the Schuey love fest. Although just to let you know Chris, XRAY make some eccentric hubs that allow us to raise or lower the diff an extra 0.5mm from standard. They have been tested a while ago by a few guys and the standard high position was found to be best.

Good luck to all the Schumacher guys in 2009

Cheers Jonny, top info! Now get back to the dark side

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BagofSkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2009 at 3:47pm
Dear floating heads,

Can  you go into any details on the science/geometry of the hinge pin hight suggestion of 5mm? Is it something established through trial and error? Is it because of the hight of the upright thus forcing a good upper link angle (for R/C)? Is it tuly 5 mm from the chassis or should it be 13mm from the ground? 
I'm just trying to get my head around it....

Cheers,
Chris.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lee woodhams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2009 at 3:53pm

Hiya,

5mm has been found to be the best place though testing, it is always a good place to start from, and yes it is measured from the chassis, you don't need to move the pin if you change ride height.

Lee, AKA right floating head.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BagofSkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2009 at 8:23pm
Cheers floating Lee.

When you say it's always a good place to start from, why/when would you change it? If you wanted to make a small adjustment to roll centre without affecting camber gain too much?

Cheers, Chris.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lee woodhams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2009 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Chris Grainger Chris Grainger wrote:

Originally posted by BagofSkill BagofSkill wrote:

I fitted HPI's new TC roll bal links so I could tweek out the bars in the standard position. It works really well.

Chris and Lee, awesome to have your brains on board! I'm glad you asked for the rear body mounts because that's the first thing I thought of when I took mine out of the box last month!

When you're developing your setups what makes you settle on lower wishbone shim hight? Is it just a matter of trying to keep the arms level at a given ride hight or are you using it in conjunction with the top link to set static roll centre, adjust roll centre migration and camber gain.

Cheers, Chris.

Thanks for that.

Nothing to do with arm angle really, its been found by everyone that the pins 5mm from the top of the chassis gives the best all round traction with the std rubber tyre size. so 3mm rear 2mm front on a 2.5mm chassis gives that, I would expect lower it and you will loose traction with to much roll. raise it you will lose traction with not enough roll. all other teams run between 5 and 5.75. then just adjust upper link to suit..

No new clamps will be o ring still

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BagofSkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2009 at 10:11pm
Doh! Memory like a goldfish!

Thanks Lee.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BagofSkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2009 at 10:16pm
How do you guys approach track width as a tuning tool?

Try to keep the highest width while maintianing enough reaction to direction change?

And what's to choose between shimming the bottom wishbone or the hex?

Cheers,
Chris.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kirby Masterman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2009 at 6:27am

The spacers on the Hex is a quicker and lazier approach but I recommend that you only use 1mm and 0.5mm spacers to advoid trouble with the wheel not clamping onto the hex properly or rubbing against the arm. For more significant changes you would be better off changing the spacers in the arm. 

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