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Swift 2 - Help Wanted

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Blue2000 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 October 2008 at 11:45am

I have recently aquired a Swift 2, needed some fixing, had to replace the liner and piston/burn room and conrod due to previous owner overheating badly...I know I might as well have bought a new Hyper .21...but when the engines in bits the techy in me says fix it rather than bin it...anyway.

The pull starter 'dangled' a bit and has now frayed in half, losing about 2 inches,any ideas on new cord, bathroom cord looks a bit thick, my DYNEEMA power Kite strings a bit thin.

Having now dialed the engine in, more or less(8 tanks from new liner), I notice that on grass, with standard SWIFT 2 tyres the getway is slow, no wheel spin at all, it seems like the clutch is slipping, as this is my first Nitro not sure what to expect in terms of 'bite' and don't want to replace shoes and springs if this is a 'feature', if not then should I do shoes as well as springs, and standard swift parts or use similar or Aluminium? Don;t really want to change the bell as well as this is used for bashing.

Running 20% model technics (MiM blend) with a McCoy MC8, but does seem to run slightly hot (no thermometer but spit test)

I put 45 in the front shox and 35 in the rear, seems fine, any ideas on the best for diffs? running on playing field type grass, with some jumps.

Previous owner moved ackerman from centre setting to front, any thoughts?

Whats the difference between the standard front bumper and the upgrade bumper?

 

Any help appreciated

Blue

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Mofi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2008 at 7:43pm

If you want more bite then fit aluminium clutch shoes and 1.2mm springs.

Chuck that nasty Model Technics fuel in the bin and buy some decent stuff.

The shock oil you have sounds about right.  The differential oil selection is dependent on what power split you want but this works well on a Hyper:

Rear: 1000 wt
Centre: 12,500 wt
Front: 3000 or 5000 wt, depending on how much front grip you want.

The best geometry setting I've found is: front camber -1.5 degrees, front toe out 2 degrees, rear camber -1 degree and toe in 1 degree (never set the rear to toe out!)

I've got some spare pull cord if you want it.

Oh and yes, you should've just bought a new Hyper...



Edited by Mofi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2008 at 2:09pm

Mofi, Thanks,

I just bought some Hong Nor Silver (Long life) shoes, comes with two spring sets so will check which ones are 1.2, (black or gold)...8.99 all in from MiM, turned out the stock plastic ones were not worn out but worn unevenly, one was worn a lot more than the other two, alo the bell housing was little tight.

The Model Technics fuel is not the normal 20% but a Models in Motion(Herts Model Nitro Club..Stewart) custom special brew made by MT, soon to carry the MiM name, so I reckon its pretty good.

I will check the geometry and try as you suggest, need to pull the balls apart anyway as they are sloppy and seem to have some dirt ingress.

Cord sorted, all I lost is about 2 inches and as the starting is now easy I only use about 6-8 inches anyway, spring is a bit of a knack but seemed easy enough to re-build the pull start.

Will give the diffs a look at next week, after run with new clutch, they have never been re-filled from new and the car is 18 months old and about 4 gallons, so don't know what the stock fills were but new lube and a general clean can't be bad for it.

Yeeess would have loved a Hyper 8.5 Pro, or even better an MBX6 but for 100 all in including metred glow start and hump pack and 1/2 gallon of fuel from my brother it was a good deal even if I needed to fix the lump....you can't run the car after work, in the dark ,in the evening, in the garage...but you can re-build stuff, half the fun methinks.

Any thoughts on whether a McCoy MC8 is a wee bit hot, I think its techncially a medium to cold plug rather than cold(MC9), plug coil is a little 'white', with a dry black body when the mixture is running with a nice light smoke trail and only a slight increase of revs in the LSN pinch test.

Thanks

Blue

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Mofi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2008 at 6:13pm

I run the Hong Nor Silver shoes and black springs (gold ones won't pull away until the engine is screaming its head off) in one of my Hypers and it bites very hard - spinning all 4 wheels readily, if too violent with the throttle.

I know MiM, bought quite a few bits from them in the past but I just don't rate Model Technics fuel and prefer Byrons or O'Donnells.

You should be ok with a shorter pull cord now - I've always thought that stock cords are way too long in the first place.

I've been through pretty much every differential oil combination in my Hypers and found the mix suggested to be the best for all-round traction and the heavy centre oil helps to reduce inner wheel tyre 'ballooning'.

That sounds a good deal from your brother so I see your logic in getting it running.

The Hyper 8.5 Pro is a nice buggy but it's a compromise between the weak 'racing' Hyper 8 and the heavy but strong 'bashing' Hyper 7 PBS - thus it seems to be neither.

But the bodyshell is nice, here's my 2-speed Hyper 7 PBS with a very modified Hyper 8.5 bodyshell fitted: (the front tower is now 7075 alloy to match the rest)

MC8 is a tad hot but should be ok now that the weather is cooling down.  Try an O.S No.8 when the weather warms up or a No.3 in this weather.

I have to agree that half of the interest with this hobby (and toys in general) is the building/rebuilding/tinkering.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 11:27am

Right, now I could do with some real thinking help.

Fitted the Hong Nor clutch with balck springs, better than the stock plastic worn shoes and easy to fit...thanks for comfirming these.

The real problem I now have is the rate I am getting through plugs. I have now got through 5 MC8's in as many weeks, yesterday got through 3 in one day and last one only about 5 mins....not happy!!

The symptoms are:- Engine is now run in, 8 tanks ish. Starting routine is to take plug out, pull a few time to remove after run and allow some fuel through (finger over the exhaust) and throttle cracked slightly wider than idle. Insert plug. The engine starts first pull!!

After warming up a few runs around and head is a wee bit hot (spit sizzels and evaporates in about 2 seconds.I richen slightly 1/8 on the HSN. I am now getting a light smoke at idle and slightly heavier on acceleration but interestingly when WOT is reached and car is no longer accelrating then the smoke trail gets lighter again, mentally thinking HSN slightly lean and LSN slightly rich.

On second tank the engine just flames out/stops, plug is missing a coil!! Silver plug is now slightly blueish, the inside of the plug body is black but not 'wet' and hole where coil should be. I richen another 1/8th and about 1 hour on the LSN, more difficult to start now, even though warm and new plug, same thing after 3/4 tank and running on WOT...this time coil is still there but must be broken as metered glo-starter shows no circuit.

Third time, richen another 1/8 on the HSN and 1 hour on the LSN,now it does not want to start and when it does it dies when starter removed, crack the idle open a bit, and lean LSN by 1 hour, now idles OK. Ran it about 20 feet before sudden stop, which I now know to be dead plug..yes one brand new plug toast, no coil again, body not been in long enough to turn blue and inseide of plug slightly 'wet'...go home and ponder...run out of my supply of 5 MC8's I got with the car.

So...why am I eating plugs?

If it starts on first pull from cold does that mean HSN and LSN is pretty much spot on...or should it be harder to start from cold?

Am I losing plugs because I am no running too rich in an attempt not to run too hot?

If the mixture is dialed in to start properly and then run with a light vapour trail and I am still running hot should I use a colder plug to retard ignition?

Any thoughts on why I get a light smoke at WOT and still run hot? Going to check for Air leaks around carb/pull start backing plate, is the pipe seal sensitive? I have noticed the header flange is not quite square to the engine due to the pipe mounts, would need to shorten the header to pipe link to correct.

Other backgorund is that prior owner blew a piston, crack from skirt to top end, hence need for new con-rod/burn room and piston/liner...but he was running MC8's

Any help appreciated, especially on which new plugs to source, Mark Marshall reccomended the Fireball Super cool any user experience with this PRP .21 engine and any make of plugs/

Any comments/help welcome  thanks

Blue

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 6:31pm

It sounds like you may have swarf floating around in the engine - either from the new piston/liner bedding-in or the remains of the old cracked one (or a combination of both).  Very small particles of swarf hitting the plug element will cause it to short and blow the element.

Have you removed the head and checked the top of the piston?  If there are small raised particles (like coarse sandpaper) then that is the swarf.

You will need to strip and flush out the crankcase/bearings/ports and piston to remove this.

If the header isn't flush and sealing well then that will affect the fuelling mixture and cause it to run lean - even if the HSN is set rich.

Try an O.S no.8 plug as a 'mid-range' one and see how that helps - AFTER flushing out the engine of swarf.



Edited by Mofi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2008 at 10:40am

many thanks, I will try these things, can't do any harm cleaning up the engine. When I re-built I did clean as much as I could, did not flush though. the header is definately seated at a slight angle from square, will re-align and use a new seal (I have a spare), and tray a colder plug OS8 or MC9??

Can running too rich with a too hot plug cause the plug to blow, i understand a hotter plug 'advances' the ignition point, I am wondering if the plug is causing detonation and the richer the mixture the fiercer the detonation??

Blue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2008 at 8:28pm
Lots of things can cause a plug to fail but I think you are trying to look too deeply, when the biggest cause of blowing plugs hasn't been eliminated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2008 at 11:32pm
Is it just me but how come this thread has had 85 views and nobody else has offered any advice to this guy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2008 at 10:51am

Interesting on the views....noticed that the foru m has not been much used recently, is 1/8th buggy interest waning in favour of truggies? Maybe there is just not enough banter. Maybe the Swift 2 is now getting a bit old?? Any ideas what other cars are powered by the PRP .21?

Going to wait till the weekend to strip and clean thoroughly, is it worth easing the liner out again and cleaing the case behind, any tips for removal?? The last one was a bit of a bugger to get out, would heating the crank case with a hair dryer help or would that expand the liner more...can't remember whether bass expands more than aluminum when heated. Whilst I can flush with nitor fuel, any reason not to use good old unleaded?? have a can full of it sat there for the lawn mover next to my bench, would be quite easy to dunk the entire lump into it and rinse/flush out, dry and then lightly wash with nitro fuel/after run oil.

Blue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2008 at 10:32pm

The liquid used to flush out the engine doesn't matter.  You are trying to physically remove mechanical residue and not trying to chemically cleanse the engine components.  You could flush it out with water, petrol or a 1996 corked Claret for what it's worth.

Sorry, I've never had a liner that's hard to remove but brass does have a higher co-efficient of thermal expansion than aluminium, so the liner will be harder to remove when hot.

Buy a can of WD40 or 3-in-1 oil and chuck the bottle of 'after-run oil' in the bin please! 'After-run oil' is a mythical substance, only purchased by gullible people who don't know any better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2008 at 11:42am

I am glad you said that, as I don't use 'after-run' oil. I use and always have used my handy can of 3-in 1 oil after a run...... goes back to my days with model boats when a nipper, had a 10cc Merco, pretty low performance and plugs had idle bars, but you needed to oil everything coz of all the water about. remove plug, couple of drops, remove filter couple of drops spin around a couple of turns!!

Thanks for the responses, good to know someone is keen to help.

TA

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2008 at 6:49pm
I just knew there was something else behind your posts.  I have a 0.60 (10 and a bit cc) powered Prestwich Models' Typhoon offshore powerboat (amongst other nitro boats) and that uses nearly as much 3-in-1 oil as it does nitro fuel!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2008 at 9:16am
Mofi, I had the Merco 61, in a custom circuit racer that I built from scratch from an unknown hull mould I aquired and also in a wooden 4 foot offshore power boat, which I can't remember the name of. They are both sitting in the loft, my nipper keeps asking me to get them running again, this is half the reason for getting the car, its easy to run at the local park/field and next summer will get the boats out....but for the time being
 
I have now figured the problem but not the cause!! I measured the clearance and found it to be 0.8mm which is quite large, also the compression was a bit low, even though the liner and piston was only 5 tanks or so old. the head was removed and showed some light 'pitting' indicating detonation, even though the head was again only about 5 tanks old...strange.... low compression, pleanty of clearnace and predetaonation with a mixture that was definatley NOT super lean and a plug that was at worst medium to cold!!

I stripped the engine down and found that the internal piston boss for the gudgeon pin had cracked and a small bit was missing. This is really really really really really really really really annoying, as that was the same reason why I bought the new liner piston and conrod in the first place!!

I am at a total loss to understand what could possibly cause the piston boss to crack twice with adequate clearance, a reasonable plug, OK compression, 20% nitro, Ok to rich mixture....and I have NOT run a full tank at WOT B4 anyone thinks of engine abuse.......any ideas appreciated because it is going to really niggle me.

So now I have a choice, buy a second new liner and piston for 40 and a gudgeon pin and clips etc say 45 or just admit defeat, bin it and buy a new lump....and it won't be a PRP from Shumacher! I am thinking of buying a Hyper .21 3 port, reasonable engine, seems to be highly thought of, cheap and bullet proof, my local shop also has the Ansmann .21 for similar price, a Force .21....the NovaRossi is a bit above my price range I am thinking that an 80 lump is about right for the car and bashing. Will the Swift Flywheel/clutch and header/pipe fit or will I have to get a new???

regards
Blue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote La La Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2008 at 10:10pm
so your trying to find a car for 80?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2008 at 10:40am

LoL, just the engine. I quite like the HPI Nitrostar .21BB. Its purple, amcthes the Swift 2 Purple Alloy and I think is made by Force, whoeveryone says make bullet proof engines with good materials. eg they may not be the highest spec, highest revving or highest power, but they will last for a while.

Ta

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2008 at 7:20pm
Force engines are ok (I've got three), they are made by the same manufacturer as the Hyper branded ones.  For 80 you could get a brand new Mach 28 engine (also made by the same manufacturer), with carb and pullstart from the many people on ebay who buy new Hyper RTR models and strip them.  A .28 will give more grunt low-end than a .21, it won't rev as high but the extra low-end torque is good.  The best bit about Mach 28 engines is that there isn't a piece of purple anywhere on them - the cooling fin is black
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2008 at 10:25am

Mofi,

Thanks for the advice, I am getting all sorts of reccomendations, personally I will not be going for a .28. I live 6 miles from HMNC and intend to take to the track when I get a reliable engine and worked out the chassis tuning so will want a .21.

Many others rate the Picco .21B....but it has been discontinued although is still available. The HPI .21BB (discontinued but still availbale)seem to have specs better suited to a Buggy, the HPI F3.5 which has replaced it is, according to Mirage(HPI distributer) suited to the Savage truck as it has lowere revs.

The Hyper .21 seems the best buggy engine but my local Model shop (Stewart (Wilcox?) - Models in Motion) does not think they last long before new liners are needed. Trouble is I am going to the US in a couple of weeks  and can get a Hyper .21 (OFN53212) 8 port for $135 plus 7.4% sales tax = 94, which seems pretty good value to me.

So I have a choice, the Ansmann Force .21 with green alloy head that Stewart reccomended, the HPI .21BB purple that he also has, the Picco .21B that many others (Apex models) reccomend, or the Hyper .21 8 port which has th epowere and revs but won't last...decisions decisions.

Blue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mofi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2008 at 10:56am

I used to run Hyper .21 8 port engines and never had a piston/liner fail but I did manage to snap the gudgeon pin.  The one from the States sounds a good deal.

I know that you need to have a .21 for racing but what I've found is that the Mach 28 (brand new from RTR dismantlers) is almost 'disposable'.  I buy them for 65-80 (depending on the auction), sell on the carb and pullstart (I use a starter box) for 15-20 each = a brand new engine for less than a piston and liner.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2008 at 11:14am

I don't think the view was that the piston/liner fails, Stewart actually said that the materials are a bit poor for the higher state of tune 2.5hp??rather than the more common 1.9, although I am sure its all relative, than some other similar priced lumps, hence the compression goes quicker than other RTR engines.

Any views on which ones are easier to tune, I got the other to run quite well and am not 'incompetent' when it comes to knowing what the needles do -I am putting the failed Swift engine down to an unidentified fault, I know I did not cause the piston failure.

The other reason I am a bit wary of a .28 is that truck engines have more low down torque, which, whilst good generally, might not extend the life of the SWIFT 2 diffs, not being known for their strength.

Blue

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