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Pro Cat revisited 20 years later

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Dazzieboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2012 at 10:28pm
I've swapped out the standard main belt for the 6mm version recommended by Luke. The first piece of good news is that the new one is the same length as the old one so thanks Luke for providing the order code (see earlier post for part number):
 
Here it is fitted in the car, you can see that with the one piece MMS rear diff there is plenty of room for the wider belt alongside the two rear belts:
 
Just need to modify the layshaft gears so that the thicker belt can run between them. I've had a collar made up the same as Luke's from Neil at RW Racing and have taken some measurements of the existing setup for reference. Current gap:
 
The collar measures 6.4mm and takes this gap up to 6.8mm. I may take 0.4mm off the collar as I am worried about the gears sitting on the pins in the shaft correctly. This would bring the gap down to 6.4mm and when the belt measures 6.05mm there should be enough clearance for it not to bind. The overall distance to the edge of the gears is shown below:
 
This must obviously remain the same so I have some sanding to do.
 


Edited by Dazzieboy - 01 May 2012 at 10:32pm
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Dazzieboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2012 at 10:43pm
I've also been playing with the front suspension. Firstly I've swapped the 30wt oil for 40wt. This has made a big difference and I can actually feel some damping happening now when I compress and release the shocks so it will be interesting to see how that translates onto the track. I've also swapped to ball grippas to attach to the wishbone as its much easier to change springs. These are much shorter than the procat version and as a result it has reduced the droop. this is a good thing as I had too much and it was being restricted by the front anti roll bar which could have caused it damage. Now its matched to the roll bar much better. I've also added a spacer and rubber o-ring to act as a bump stop. I am hoping that this will help to protect the chassis upon landing from jumps:
 
I've also added some nylon spacers to remove the slop in the wishbones. This is another great idea from Luke, the spacers can be had from ebay:
 
More to come as and when I can get around to it.
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Dazzieboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2012 at 10:59pm
Something I have found with the Bosscat slipper layshaft is that the holes for the pins which hold the layshaft gears are 1.5mm whereas the procat one measures 2mm. Do I have to drill these out to 2mm and fit the procat parts or do I try and source the bosscat bits?
Help with this would be greatly appreciated
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kaszal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaszal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 8:28am
Great detail in your posts, Darren. Your Procat rebuild is looking very professional! I didn't realise the hole diameters were different in the Procat and Bosscat slipper layshafts. Are the pins thicker in the older Procat? I havn't noticed any problems yet. I wonder if the layshaft pulley mouldings are different. I'll have a look on the weekend. Good idea about reducing the width of the collar to maximise the mesh of the pins and in the pulley slots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 7:17pm
That's right the Procat pins won't fit in the Bosscat shaft so I can only assume the layshaft gears are different too. I would therefore check that you aren't mixing and matching parts in the wrong way. I am going to drill out the holes in the Bosscat shaft so that I can fit all of the Procat bits to it. I have checked the shaft diameters and both are 4mm. I am guessing they thought it a weakness to have 2mm holes in a 4mm shaft as there is not much meat either side. Reducing the pin size only moves the weakness elsewhere.
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kaszal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaszal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 7:37pm
OK, I must be using only Bosscat parts i.e. U1294P top pulleys and U1214N slipper layshaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jay996rs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 7:46pm
That vid worked .... Good video anyway i really liked the snow and ice version Luke , i've never raced on snow looks fun , i've got another cat3000 turning up in a few days so now i have enough parts to make one whole car i am really lookin forward to getting mine up and running just got my cells , motor , and radio gear to buy at the end of the month , ive also decided to get a bosscat at some point , but for now i'll sort the cat 3000 . Loving the new belt on your procat Dazzie , i take it thats a mod for the new breed of motors and cells to stop belt skip ? Nice shocks them aswell might change mine to the newer cat shocks see how my funds go .... Oh by the way you will have less steering with your harder damping up front so sounds like a good idea , with your griproll problems .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 8:01pm
If its any help Jay I got my saddle pack cells from CML Distribution they do a 2100mah and a 3800mah I have one of each. I'm keen to find out how they last with the brushless motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jay996rs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 8:27pm
think i'm gonna run lipo cells 5700mah 35c whatever that means lol , but i'll have a little look at them thanks .... think youll find your 3800mah cells better more punch .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 10:32pm
A quick pic of the layshafts Bosscat top, Procat bottom:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAT3K2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by jay996rs jay996rs wrote:

think i'm gonna run lipo cells 5700mah 35c whatever that means lol , but i'll have a little look at them thanks .... think youll find your 3800mah cells better more punch .
 
Sorry for the quick thread hijack.. if you want to fit lipos to a CAT3000 you'll need to make up a lipo tray. Here's how they fitted when i ran lipos in my 3000
 
 
 
 
Paul.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jay996rs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2012 at 5:38pm
Awsome cat 3000 Paul , thanks for the info on that i was wondering how i was gonna fit the cells in , would really love them graphite parts on my car do you still have them lol ? What did the cat go like with lipo power ..... I really got to get my car done quicker but the wife would kill me if i spend more this month on parts ... Thanks again , i may need more help soon so if you dont mind i may pm you Paul
 
cheers jay
 
sorry dazzie the glory of this thread is all yours and your procats ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 10:27pm
Quick Update!
I decided that it was easier to use my Procat parts to make up the slipper layshaft rather than source Bosscat parts. So first job was to drill out the two holes for the layshaft gear pins from 1.5mm to 2mm. I used a pillar drill to ensure they were straight and didn't snap the layshaft. Next job was to sand down the gears and collar and fit them on the layshaft. With the collar fitted there was some side to side movement of the layshaft through the gears but I cured this by fitting a washer between the gear and the pin for the drive plate see picture below:
Interestingly the washer is a standard 3mm washer with the hole filed out to fit on the 4mm layshaft. The reason for this is that the outside diameter of the washer is small enough to sit inside the bearing on the side plate. This ensures that the drive plate sits correctly on the layshaft. Here is the full slipper assembly on the car with the 6mm drive belt:
This should definitely handle my intended brushless setupThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jay996rs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2012 at 10:39pm

I always look forward to your posts , good job nice beefy setup ... lipo powered no problemo lol , good pics as usual mine didnt work quite aswell but i'll learn

 
Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaszal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 4:59pm
Great progress, Darren. I'm looking forward to seeing your Procat go round the track again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 9:59pm
With the belt fitted and layshaft sorted it was time to move onto the front. I had been using the standard method of belt tensioning but had an incident where I had had a head on collision which had shunted the front diff back and made the belt slip. I had also noticed variations in belt tension after running it. I therefore decided to implement Luke's method of belt tensioning by installing a shim between the diff and the mount. I used some 3mm carbon fibre and made up some 16.5mm x 10mm shims:
These are installed as below:
To be honest the belt still seems a bit slack but I'm going to run it and see how I get on as I know from experience that you can get away with running the belt really slack on these cars and it makes a big difference to the amount of transmission loss encountered. If it does slip I'll try and get some thicker carbon from work or wrap some tape on the existing shims to fatten them up a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 10:14pm
Also at the front I have rebuilt the steering, for some reason my car was built with the steering working opposite to the manual (ie the servo saver was on the left rather than the right). I bought the car like this and can only assume that it was an attempt to get better weight distribution as the esc would sit on the right and the receiver on the left. As the esc is heavier than the receiver it would balance up the motor being slightly to the left. The problem with it is that the motor wires have to cross the chassis and with the impending installation of a brushless sensored system I didn't think this was worth the gain. So I have rebuilt it so that the servo is the correct way around and the esc can be mounted on the left side for a neater wire install:
 
I have also looked at reducing the steering for better stability outdoors. I have done this by mounting the steering link in the lowest hole of the servo saver:
 
I have had to offset the servo saver but it works well and has reduced the steering by the right amount:
 
I have ordered a sensor wire to complete my esc and motor install then I should be ready for some more testing (can't wait!) lets hope for some good weather next weekend LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2012 at 10:36pm
I forgot to add that I rebuilt the rear shocks finally and discovered that they have 3 hole pistons. I put in 40wt oil as per the fronts and reverted to the schumacher grey springs. I lowered the ride height a bit as well to help combat the grip roll so my setting for testing will be:
 
Front - Schumacher Blue spring - 20mm ride height - 40wt Losi oil - 2 hole piston - anti rollbar fitted
Rear - Schumacher Grey spring - 16mm ride height - 40wt Losi oil - 3 hole piston - no roll bar.
 
I really cant wait to run it now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaszal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2012 at 8:09am
Hi Darren, thanks for the setup information!

Here's mine for the next outing...

Front - Schumacher blue spring - 35wt Losi oil - Tamiya 2 hole pistons 1.3mm dia.
Rear - Losi pink spring - 30wt Losi oil - Tamiya 2 hole pistons drilled out to 2.45mm
No anti-roll bars.
Compared to yours, I think my shocks are mounted one hole further out on the wishbones.
Previously I had 32.5wt in the front but I want to try slightly firmer.
Also, I had 2.4mm pistons in the rear with 27.5wt oil but I felt I needed less pack for the ripply surface at Stotfold so I drilled them out to 2.45mm.
On wet astro the car was best with silver mini spikes. The mini-pins weren't great outside.

Here's a useful chart I found...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazzieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2012 at 10:10pm
With 2.45mm holes and 27.5wt oil I'm surprised you actually feel any damping! Does it not feel really springy? I think I may have a goldilocks situation goin on with mine where 30wt is not enough but 40wt will be too much looks like i'll have to shell out for some 35wt oil, we shall see
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